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Please consider posting in the new forum
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,563 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 2 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2020 - 03:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

in fact, I offered a helping hand several times during the last 10 years or so ... but never got any feedback from those in power.



Drab... never? You want me to dig up all the times I did respond to your feedback? Please...

I appreciated the feedback but whether it was 2005, 20010, or 2015 my situation was still the same. And to say the site hasn't been upgraded is silly. I have some asynchronous javascript that would argue differently.
Pongo_Arm
_VISITCOMMUNITY
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: January 27, 2017
KitMaker: 147 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2020 - 04:41 AM UTC
Maybe make the Forum hyper link above this post point to the forums you want people to use?
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 6 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2020 - 05:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Lol... we sorta duplicated that post.


Jim, Robin,
I see where you are going. But stilló numbers on the right, and the icons for topics mean nothing to me. The long scroll of topic titles is daunting. Whatís more important to me is the differentiation of what part of Kitmaker Iím looking at when Iím in forum posts (the complete forum). That way, I could pick and choose at a glance based on color and topic title. To me, the new forum post topics are just jumbled all together in one long run. And the badges, icons and numbers donít make any useful sense. I guess those indicate something, but is it something of importance to a model builder or is it a nod to a computer guy? I donít need to track posts, or the number of replies, views, thumbs up (or down). I need to ask questions and reply to questions. I need to see others work, read how itís done, or find out whatís coming down the line without wading through the other stuff. The simplicity seems gone. I know youíve done some hard work here, and I appreciate it. But I prefer less hunting and clicking. Iíll check back in a few months after the ďold systemĒ is out of my system, and see if all the new stuff makes sense. But for now, Iíve got to go build some models. Like I said before, itís me, and my preferences, not you guys and what youíre commendably trying to do.
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2020 - 07:35 AM UTC
Scale Modeling Forums, view that corresponds to the Kitmaker level. All Forums are in the left column sorted by latest activity (clue to finding new content)
The right hand column show all posts, most recent at the top (corresponds to Latest in the old forum)

1: 1 unread post and 1 new topic in Dioramas
2: Number of unread posts in a topic I have read before
3: Some statistics, there are 3 posts that I havent read and one new topic in Armorama
4: The avatar for the latest contributor/poster in this topic (David Myres / Klaus-Adler by the way)

Inside Armorama, showing all categories

1: Armorama
2: all categories
3: 1 new topic
4: 4 new posts in topics I have checked before
5: Some stats for the topics, the top one has 12 replies, 160 views (matters to some of us) and the latest activity was 12 m(inutes) ago
6: My ugly mug in the selection of those who have been most active in this topic
7: Switch to show the Latest post (New and Unread are the other options)

Selected New

Lists all the topics in Armorama (still running with All categories) that I haven't visited before


Selected Unread

Shows all the four topics that I have visited before and which have new posts. David Myres is the latest poster in three of them.

The Dismiss button clears all 4 from my list of unread, in case I don't care to read the latest posts

In my humble opinion I get at least as good overview as before, maybe even slightly better





165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,456 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 86 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 01:58 AM UTC
What Russ said!
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 2 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 02:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What Russ said!



Ditto
18Bravo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 08:54 AM UTC
For those to whom post counts and badges matter, just bite the bullet and come over to the new site. You get a badge just for reading the terms and conditions, which is why I shall studiously avoid doing to. Quote someone? (A lot of it going on here) Get another badge! You can even get a badge for using an emoji! Hmmm... Might have to skip that one as well. And if you want to run up your post count, just complain about the new site - on the news site. You know, ad nauseum like.

Meantime I'm glad that when I pass on into the next world it won't be my post count I was remembered for. Matter of fact - I'm rather glad it got knocked down to zero. You know how embarrassing it is to see verification every day of how much time you've wasted on a modeling site? No badge for emoji use here, thank goodness.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 09:03 AM UTC
Those who fear the evil badges can avoid the emotional distress by not looking at them.
Just like advertising, after a while you go more or less blind to them.
Discourse uses them as a way to validate a members sincerity. If others give you a lot of likes the system assumes that you are trustworthy.
Its a matter of trying to discern between spammers and real users.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 6 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 11:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Those who fear the evil badges can avoid the emotional distress by not looking at them.
Just like advertising, after a while you go more or less blind to them.
Discourse uses them as a way to validate a members sincerity. If others give you a lot of likes the system assumes that you are trustworthy.
Its a matter of trying to discern between spammers and real users.



Robin,
Those badges are hard to avoid when they run down the middle of the page or along the side in every topic listed. I just tried to take another look and it frankly drove me nuts just trying to look at the page. Itís way to complicated for me to decode, itís not something I want to do when Iím looking for information or an interesting topic. I get it that it has something to do with avoiding spamming (does this mean we wonít be seeing any of your great ďreport spammers hereĒ posts?). The advertisements in the old system were easy to ignore as they were on the outside edges. I just canít get past the extraneous BS stuff in the middle of my screen, and I think its whatís driving me away. Itís just hard to look at, decipher, and complicates what used to be a clean and simple appearance. Iíll give it another week or so and come back to it to see if I feel differently.
VR, Russ
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 2 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 02:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

For those to whom post counts and badges matter, just bite the bullet and come over to the new site. You get a badge just for reading the terms and conditions, which is why I shall studiously avoid doing to. Quote someone? (A lot of it going on here) Get another badge! You can even get a badge for using an emoji! Hmmm... Might have to skip that one as well. And if you want to run up your post count, just complain about the new site - on the news site. You know, ad nauseum like.

Meantime I'm glad that when I pass on into the next world it won't be my post count I was remembered for. Matter of fact - I'm rather glad it got knocked down to zero. You know how embarrassing it is to see verification every day of how much time you've wasted on a modeling site? No badge for emoji use here, thank goodness.




For those who think that badges, post counts and all that social network rewards matter, you need to get offline and live in the real world for a few hours or weeks. To those giving the badges, it says something about the site when you have to entice people with badges to play the stupid level up game. I don't care about your badges and you shouldn't either. And for the general clutter of the new site? It's annoying but I can decipher it, no problem, but I shouldn't have to. There is an elegance to simplicity and there is chaos when you try to make something do too much.

I could give a rats a.. about liking someones post or someone liking mine. How long until it becomes like facebook or any other social site where people are just posting to reach some level or posting something relevant. It's going to happen: "why won't you like my post waaaa!" You think spammers were annoying? Wait until that starts.

It's like ebay or any other site that begs for feedback. You want feedback? Oh, I'll give you feedback. You won't like it, but you'll get it. You want a thumbs up? I don't give those, or any other type of emoji. I not a effing idiot who receives validation through an idiotic thumbs up, smiley face or turd emoji.
HermannB
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 04:44 PM UTC
Will there be a section about new kit releases?
southpier
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 546 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 7 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 08:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I could give a rats a.. about liking someones post or someone liking mine. How long until it becomes like facebook or any other social site where people are just posting to reach some level or posting something relevant. It's going to happen: "why won't you like my post waaaa!" You think spammers were annoying? Wait until that starts.

It's like ebay or any other site that begs for feedback. You want feedback? Oh, I'll give you feedback. You won't like it, but you'll get it. You want a thumbs up? I don't give those, or any other type of emoji. I not a effing idiot who receives validation through an idiotic thumbs up, smiley face or turd emoji.



which kind are you then?
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 01, 2020 - 01:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Those who fear the evil badges can avoid the emotional distress by not looking at them.
Just like advertising, after a while you go more or less blind to them.
Discourse uses them as a way to validate a members sincerity. If others give you a lot of likes the system assumes that you are trustworthy.
Its a matter of trying to discern between spammers and real users.



Robin,
Those badges are hard to avoid when they run down the middle of the page or along the side in every topic listed. I just tried to take another look and it frankly drove me nuts just trying to look at the page. Itís way to complicated for me to decode, itís not something I want to do when Iím looking for information or an interesting topic. I get it that it has something to do with avoiding spamming (does this mean we wonít be seeing any of your great ďreport spammers hereĒ posts?). The advertisements in the old system were easy to ignore as they were on the outside edges. I just canít get past the extraneous BS stuff in the middle of my screen, and I think its whatís driving me away. Itís just hard to look at, decipher, and complicates what used to be a clean and simple appearance. Iíll give it another week or so and come back to it to see if I feel differently.
VR, Russ



Screen image of a topic in the current Armorama:

Contains avatar image, some badge/accknowledgement or something. Reply buttons et.c

Screen image of a topic in the new forums:


Avatar image. Avatar is NOT a badge. Same as before but round instead of square.

List of topics in a forum in the current Armorama

Shows topic creator and latest poster in topic

List of topics in the new forum

The round images are avatars, shows the first, most frequent and latest poster in the topic

Badges are only seen when you click on someones avatar
This is my abbreviated profile, pops up on the screen when you click on my avatar image. It shows a few of my badges

It requires ONE click on my avatar to get this popup

If you click my face in the popup you will get this:

More info about my latest posts (vaialbale in the old Armorama too). There is a button to click if you want to see all of this:

Some of them I know what/why about, some others I haven't bothered about finding out what they mean.

It would take three intentional clicks to see a lot of badges and one single click to see a few of my badges in the abbreviated profile.

Please compare the two topic images and the two topic list images and explain where the increased clutter resides.



RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 01, 2020 - 01:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

For those to whom post counts and badges matter, just bite the bullet and come over to the new site. You get a badge just for reading the terms and conditions, which is why I shall studiously avoid doing to. Quote someone? (A lot of it going on here) Get another badge! You can even get a badge for using an emoji! Hmmm... Might have to skip that one as well. And if you want to run up your post count, just complain about the new site - on the news site. You know, ad nauseum like.

Meantime I'm glad that when I pass on into the next world it won't be my post count I was remembered for. Matter of fact - I'm rather glad it got knocked down to zero. You know how embarrassing it is to see verification every day of how much time you've wasted on a modeling site? No badge for emoji use here, thank goodness.




For those who think that badges, post counts and all that social network rewards matter, you need to get offline and live in the real world for a few hours or weeks. To those giving the badges, it says something about the site when you have to entice people with badges to play the stupid level up game. I don't care about your badges and you shouldn't either. And for the general clutter of the new site? It's annoying but I can decipher it, no problem, but I shouldn't have to. There is an elegance to simplicity and there is chaos when you try to make something do too much.

I could give a rats a.. about liking someones post or someone liking mine. How long until it becomes like facebook or any other social site where people are just posting to reach some level or posting something relevant. It's going to happen: "why won't you like my post waaaa!" You think spammers were annoying? Wait until that starts.

It's like ebay or any other site that begs for feedback. You want feedback? Oh, I'll give you feedback. You won't like it, but you'll get it. You want a thumbs up? I don't give those, or any other type of emoji. I not a effing idiot who receives validation through an idiotic thumbs up, smiley face or turd emoji.



One thing I can do in the new forum is when I post about a YouTube video: I could add this " #Scarred " and trigger a notification to turn up in your private messages to notify you about the post.

The possibility to give likes eliminates a lot of unnecessary "empty" posts which only says 'I like it' or something similar. Give a like instead of a whole post if you don't have anything more to say. This removes some of the clutter.
165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,456 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 86 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 02:52 AM UTC
I don't think it is wise for any member of the Editorial staff to be telling the site's readership what is or isn't a worthwhile aspect of the old vs. the new forums. Especially with references that allude to silliness or immaturity.

What is considered important to your readers is simply that - important to your readers. As Madison Avenue likes to say "perception/opinion is reality".

For me, what's important is full, complete, normal access to all the past rich hobby data stored on this site. What I fail to understand is why this is not the position of VERY SINGLE User, Editor and Volunteer on this site.

You say "it's not possible". I say "you didn't look hard enough".
TankManNick
_VISITCOMMUNITY
California, United States
Joined: February 01, 2010
KitMaker: 551 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 03:10 AM UTC
Read this maybe?

The Way Forward
by Jim Starkweather


"Before I start with that though I want to make something CRYSTAL CLEAR. We are not losing the content of the existing sites. So please donít think ďOh god I need to archive Armorama/AeroScale/etc. and save them to my PCĒ. You donít need to do that. They will be archived and preserved on their own special URLs and search engines and you will be able to go back and find old posts, content, etc."
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 2 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 09:52 AM UTC
It's not that the forums changed, that was inevitable. It's seeing that the forums are reduced to idiotic trust levels, requirements to advance to a new level (and those are ridiculous) forced, and yes it is forced, participation in idiotic social networking activities and garbage like that. There are people on this forum with over 10000 posts and years of membership who are now going to have to start at the idiot level. And that's not right. Reading Discourse's blog they explain that one reason is it stop spammers. Thousands of posts and years of posting you guys know they aren't spammers. It seems almost disrespectful. I've been here since '16 I believe and only have some 1700 posts but have been building for 50 years and I don't think its right that I'd have to start from scratch playing the post game to advance to some new 'trust level'. Anyone who's been here over a month with a handful of posts has proven they aren't spammers.

And what about VIP guests? Mig has posted here. Are you going to make him play the trust level game or make him a special account? Don't know if he watches the forums but someone might want to give him a heads up they've changed. And what about David Bryden? The walking, talking encyclopedia of tiger info. Special access for him? The numerous vendors who have posted, are you giving them special access, letting them know that the forums have changed?
deerstalker36
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Queensland, Australia
Joined: May 16, 2010
KitMaker: 232 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 08:02 PM UTC
things change, and we go with the flow. one thing i will say about the new forum though is that it takes an age to load, and often i'll end up with a black screen and nothing else. dont know if thats an issue anyone else has.
As long as i can take part in the campaigns, or group builds or whatever they are now i dont care.it encourages me to build stuff.
i dont like the layout of the new forum, ithink it could have been designed more user friendly but i'll get used to it
varanusk
Staff MemberManaging Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / EspaŮa
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 2 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 08:21 PM UTC
Posting a couple of messages is enough to work normally on the new forum. Just that. I have seen no complains about lack of trust, privileges or account improvements on the new forum.

Content is going to be archived, maybe on a different format, but not lost.

Jim, Robin and other staff members have spent a lot of time to ensure the survival of Armorama (and associated sites).
There are things I don't like on the new forum, different from yours and also different from any other user, but I am grateful for their effort which allows us to stay in touch and share knowledge and works.
varanusk
Staff MemberManaging Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / EspaŮa
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 2 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 08:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

things change, and we go with the flow. one thing i will say about the new forum though is that it takes an age to load, and often i'll end up with a black screen and nothing else. dont know if thats an issue anyone else has.
As long as i can take part in the campaigns, or group builds or whatever they are now i dont care.it encourages me to build stuff.
i dont like the layout of the new forum, ithink it could have been designed more user friendly but i'll get used to it



Colin, I have had no such problems. What browser are you using? Any chance to test a different one (Edge, Chrome, Firefox, Brave, any mobile...)?
CDK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: September 24, 2006
KitMaker: 358 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 03, 2020 - 02:09 AM UTC
Holy crap Jim, it's like you murdered their first born!

I've "been here" since 2002 maybe, (not on this account obviously, a previous couple accounts that were both banned before I just decided one day to stop acting like an entitled, petulant child.)

I remember long before there were 'subscriber' members/badges. There was an entirely different system, silver and gold tiers, we lost that system altogether and transitioned into the subscriber system so well, people seem to have forgotten about the old guard. When it happened though, it was doom and gloom end of days.

I remember entire sub forums getting the axe, anyone remember the DSB? Good lord Jim, did we all sound like this back then? If I haven't apologised for that behavior back then, I certainly do now. How embarrassing.

This forum has been changed so many times, each time the same hand wringing and each time the same overblown hyperbole. Good lord I can't imagine the coping skills one must have if this is what sets one off.

This forum has been dying for a while, posting images sucks. I signed up to the new forum and posted an image in my first post, after a couple more posts I was given more permissions. It took about ten or fifteen minutes of nosing around. Wow. I don't know how I survived such a harrowing experience but I'm glad I lived to tell about it.

Life's too short. I'ma' go build a model.

RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 03, 2020 - 02:44 AM UTC
Ken, tell you what though: The world has been going downhill since they invented the bloody wheel. Lots of things were a lot simpler before they had to go and stick wheels under everything.
deerstalker36
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Queensland, Australia
Joined: May 16, 2010
KitMaker: 232 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 04, 2020 - 06:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

things change, and we go with the flow. one thing i will say about the new forum though is that it takes an age to load, and often i'll end up with a black screen and nothing else. dont know if thats an issue anyone else has.
As long as i can take part in the campaigns, or group builds or whatever they are now i dont care.it encourages me to build stuff.
i dont like the layout of the new forum, ithink it could have been designed more user friendly but i'll get used to it



Colin, I have had no such problems. What browser are you using? Any chance to test a different one (Edge, Chrome, Firefox, Brave, any mobile...)?



I'm using Chrome, and its the same in Edge. it may just be that i need a new computer, but then that takes money from increasing my stash
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 18 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 04, 2020 - 09:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm using Chrome, and its the same in Edge. it may just be that i need a new computer, but then that takes money from increasing my stash



Well, to pay for the new computer your could always sell off part of your sta . . . . never mind, just hold on while I go and punch myself in the throat
deerstalker36
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Queensland, Australia
Joined: May 16, 2010
KitMaker: 232 posts
RailRoad Modeling: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 04, 2020 - 10:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm using Chrome, and its the same in Edge. it may just be that i need a new computer, but then that takes money from increasing my stash



Well, to pay for the new computer your could always sell off part of your sta . . . . never mind, just hold on while I go and punch myself in the throat